AI, Hiring, and Trust: Why Shortcuts Break Interviews

0:00 Cole Cornford: You would rather be that candidate that failed that technical assessment because you didn't quite score high enough. So, you know, you'll probably be invited again in the future to retake that assessment and it's fine. Like, you know, even when I was at Amazon, people would apply 2, 3 times before they landed a job sometimes. Whereas, you know, if you've gone into that technical assessment making it very obvious that, you know, you were trying to use AI when you were being specifically instructed not to, makes it very difficult for that company to want to re-invite you.

0:36 Speaker B: I think folk misunderstand that ultimately hiring is a human decision-making process. I'm Cole Cornford, founder and CEO of Galah Cyber, and you're listening to Secured, the podcast where I catch up with developers, security leaders, and innovators to talk about the real world of AppSec. Open source now powers over 90% of the software we build, but it's also where attackers increasingly strike. ChainGuard closes that trust gap with hardened, secure, production-ready open-source builds so teams can build faster, stay compliant, and eliminate risk. Get your free CVE reduction assessment at dayone.fm/chainguard and start shipping software with confidence. And hello everybody. You're here on Secured. I'm here with Kim Acosta. Kim is the founder of Youcentric, and she's a former Amazon talent acquisition professional. She's lived in Luxembourg, which is quite luxe as far as I'm concerned, and now she's set her feet in Australia and is running a super awesome consultancy. So, um, welcome to the show.

1:46 Cole Cornford: Uh, thanks so much, Cole. It's a pleasure to be on your show.

1:50 Speaker B: Yeah. So I think what would be good is maybe just telling everyone a little bit about Youcentric and why you started the business and how's it going? Cause it's not easy as someone who's coming into basically their 5th year. I know it's not a, not an easy street to walk along.

2:06 Cole Cornford: Yeah, definitely. So in terms of Youcentric, we are a recruitment agency specializing in technology recruiting, and for us that's been largely around data analytics and AI very heavily. It wasn't supposed to be planned that way. I was never a data analytics specialist recruiter, I actually recruited for Solutions Architecture at AWS and supported that 300-person or so org when I was there on the commercial side and also helped them with public sector hiring within AWS as well. So data analytics and AI, I guess, you know, that's reflecting the current market trends. That's become a bit of a specialization for us. In terms of Eucentric, it is a rather traditional business model currently when it comes to recruiting. I am an external recruiter as opposed to being an internal recruiter like I used to be. So when I was at Amazon, I worked in lead recruiter roles where I was hands-on doing the recruiting, and then eventually I moved my career into management as well and leadership. So I led the operations recruitment team during the pandemic here. Mm-hmm. And then moved on to Luxembourg. So I was transferred to Luxembourg from the company and ran a pan-European team over there as well. So, you know, delivering hundreds and hundreds of hires, supporting VPs. And now coming back here, I started my agency all on my own. Fortunately, now I do have a team member and hiring another 2 more. So watch this space. We'll be growing quite a bit next year.

3:53 Speaker B: Will you use recruitment agencies to recruit recruiters for your agency? Is that something that the industry does?

3:59 Cole Cornford: Yeah, actually there are companies that do that. And you know, they do, I'm sure they do a fantastic job. Fortunately, you know, we've been doing a lot of our own direct recruiting and that's been getting some really good results. I'm really excited about some of the new people that we'll probably be bringing on board very, very soon.

4:19 Speaker B: That's really good to, you know, being able to effectively double your headcount means that business is like really picking up for you. Cause you said data and analytics, I'm hazarding a guess and saying that it's all about artificial intelligence, right? It's that seems to be no matter where I go or how much I want to dig my head into the sand, there's a way to, someone's going to just like get a shovel, pull my head out and say, hey, have you heard about this? And I just rub my face and die inside a little bit and say, okay, I guess I need to learn a bit about it. So, but So that's where the majority of the roles are in the space at the moment, because I think that's where most of the money's being funneled to.

4:55 Cole Cornford: Yeah, so a lot of our roles right now are, I would say the majority of them would be like more data engineering. There's only one company I'm working with right now, or maybe two, you know, that's at that phase where they're like, you know, getting AI applications into productionization, the build, the, you know, building things that are now being used by sort of end users and, you know, their consumer base. Some of them are very progressed, but I think the majority right now are, you know, really trying to just build some strength and capability in data engineering. And that's where a lot of our roles are actually sitting.

5:32 Speaker B: So when you say data engineering, does that mean like, how do I do ETL flows? How do I move stuff into a data lake? How do I, like, 'cause this is a space that's pretty, I don't know that well.

5:43 Cole Cornford: Yeah, I'm learning as I go as well. But yeah, you know, sort of pipeline building, like people that are really hands-on and SQL SQL, Python. Yeah, those are some of the skills that are most in demand, I would say, with our, with our customer base.

5:58 Speaker B: I guess like learning as you go, I guess. Are you finding that is how it is when you're running a company as well?

6:04 Cole Cornford: Yeah, yeah, because when you, uh, in-house, quite often you've got pretty defined, uh, technical verticals. Like I said, when I was at AWS, it was Solutions Architecture, even though that was a pretty broad technical vertical and I did support a team of solution architects and leaders that were all in data analytics and AI, you know, you sort of have like a very sort of targeted sort of talent pool to tap into and, you know, particular stakeholders that you supported. But going into this business, you know, I thought I'd be recruiting for solutions architects for all my customers. And funnily enough, the very first role actually was a solutions architect role. So I was like, sweet, okay, we've got it. This is working. And then like as you go on, people are like, oh, like Kim, do you recruit software engineers or do you recruit like data analytics people? And then like, yeah, you just end up recruiting quite a broad range of roles. Yeah, I guess, you know, you have to really listen to your market and listen to what your customers actually need and create solutions for them or, you know, find them what they need. So it's really just a, you know, working backwards with a customer mindset that I'm trying to apply with everything that I'm doing over here at Eustatric.

7:27 Speaker B: Understanding what people need, it can be quite challenging for people, especially as they come out of big tech. I know that a lot of people are really shocked when they, they're like, what do you mean that we don't have like all of the things in the world and I have to actually have limited resources, limited capability and little reason to want to do this kind of stuff. Like, I know that over the years, like, when I was working even like big tech and then before that, like Westpac or the ATO, um, there was so many parts of cybersecurity programs that were taken for granted or that I just didn't quite like understand the value of as opposed to like nowadays. And early on, I just figured that my entire business could be like literally around secure code reviews, training developers, and just designing AppSec programs. And. I've over the years had to pivot because I've realized that people need software assurance, people need advisory, and people need like just compliance a lot more. And so those verticals are all things that we're positioned in with Galah Cyber, but they weren't where I started. I started by just assuming everyone needed code reviews, so, and that was not the case.

8:30 Cole Cornford: Definitely, you have to, you know, constantly be testing your market, finding out what they need and creating solutions, or else if you've got like this rigid idea about, you know, what you want your business to be, um, that might not be what your customers need and want. So yeah, I could completely understand that.

8:51 Speaker B: Yeah. And I've been speaking to a lot of like segments that I think aren't serviced particularly well in security as well. Um, like I know that, for example, regional Australia is, is not touched. And like generally the best security that they get is an MSP. Will bundle in like patching of software or like just general monitoring. And that's, it's not really risk, like contextualized for that business. It's just, we're just doing security activities and just charging more money or reselling products to you. And so I think that, for example, that's got a great gap is like, how do you go out and find those? Like, you know, Australia is not a country of like 1,000-person businesses, like the US. It's a country of like 30-person businesses, like hundreds of those, not like 20,000-person and businesses. So I, I think there's a massive opportunity space to be looking at that, and that's something I'm looking into next year. But the other opportunity space is just the sheer amount of stuff that's going into artificial intelligence. Like, I know, um, like, I think a lot internally about what can I do to leverage this kind of stuff myself without compromising on either the quality of the work that we produce or, like, on the experience of our customers around working with individuals. Because I know that if given the opportunity a business director will try to see what they can about reducing headcount and cutting costs. And AI, they think, can just fundamentally just remove humans out of the equation. And I know that that doesn't work. And so I'm quite confident in job security for security into the future. But like, where are you seeing AI being used in like the, the recruitment industry? Because I imagine it's just everywhere.

10:29 Cole Cornford: Yeah, look, there are products for everything these days. Um, but where I've been using it is with a lot of back office admin. So recruitment can be a really admin-heavy role because you're managing so many candidates. You want to make sure that you're updating their information. So a lot of the AI that we're using at the moment within our company is all sort of like backend tools that help us with that and, you know, help us sort of synthesize candidate information. I have been experimenting with it myself as well as a way to be able to help more people.

11:05 Speaker B: We gotta do it. We're business owners. We gotta experiment, try stuff out.

11:09 Cole Cornford: Definitely. Definitely. So I've got my own recruitment revised custom GPT that I first of all trialed with my MBA classmates. So shared that with them. They played around with it and I've had some really positive feedback. So then I did make it public and I do share it with, you know, my candidates that may want help. With preparing for interviews and you can go type in your responses or use your microphone to answer some questions and then it will help you prepare for your interview. It's like I've said it with a lot of the stuff that I would normally give them to help them prepare for their interviews. So that's been really cool and that's how I've been using AI. But I guess like in the broader market, we have seen, you know, various uses of AI across the whole end-to-end stage of, end-to-end stages of a recruitment process. Where I have decided not to really use it is when it comes to interviewing candidates. I mean, I've tried, but it just really takes away from that one-to-one human connection that I think we really do value when it comes to working with recruiters or talent professionals. And I found that with these AI solutions, they were great when it came to testing for technical skills and probing for technical skills. So AI's probably a lot more technical than I am. I'm not gonna, you know, lie about that. But, you know, they were missing a lot of the nuances that recruiters normally try to capture in an interview. So that's like your candidates, motivations, you know, their salary expectations, how are they going with their job search, are they, you know, far progressed with another interview process and, you know, unlikely to take this role. And I think that, yeah, where we're not quite there yet is like being able to capture those nuances. And I don't know whether we'll ever really get there actually, because— You're not going to tell that to some like animation on a screen. You'd rather tell that to like a person that you trust, right? So yeah, you know, I don't, I'm not confident in what's out there at the moment. It's not to say that I will never be, but that's what I'm finding right now.

13:42 Speaker B: I know that, um, like some of my, like my, my wife was looking at Christmas casual jobs and, um, One of the things that just kept coming up is labor hire firms using like one-way interviews where you, you'd have an AI just ask you a question and you'd have to, you'd get 2 or 3 attempts to an— to answer it and then it will just find the best sounding one and rate you off of that. And I, I think to myself, if, if that's the case for entry-level positions, like that's, you know, really inhuman. I understand that that's because of the scale of people who apply for Christmas casual jobs. You can't really shortlist particularly well. And candidates are also using AI a lot themselves. Like, I think I see people sending me on the Galah Cyber website. So like, pro tip, everybody who sends me on the careers form and you say something along the lines of, I really want to work at Galah Cyber because I want to improve Australia's cybersecurity posture and my background in network security and CrowdStrike is super effective for application security.

14:46 Cole Cornford: Yeah.

14:46 Speaker B: I think ChatGPT has screwed you out of a job and for that entirely because it's irrelevant to what I care about as a business owner, right? And so I think that the response of businesses to start adopting like these one-way interviews is because of the amount of slop that candidates are producing. Would you say that that's fair?

15:09 Cole Cornford: Yeah, yeah. Look, I think, you know, There is a lot of use of AI when it comes to those really sort of top-of-funnel recruitment stages, such as applications, cover letters. I think that people should really be thinking about how relevant these things are in the recruitment process anyway, like cover letters. Like, why are we still using them? I really don't understand. Because that's where we just see a lot of very generic ChatGPT-generated stuff coming out, right? I don't even know why we're using them anymore. Where, what I have found, which has been interesting is that, you know, recruiting for tech, uh, techno, tech assessments are still very widely used. So often to test for, you know, people's sort of coding proficiency, programming proficiency in, in whatever language is relevant for the role. And what I'm seeing at the moment is that a lot of my clients who do adopt this as part of their process, they do have AI detection software in place, or they get candidates. I've got one customer at the moment that actually gets candidates to do technical assessments on site with them using their computers so that they could see, like, you know, how they're approaching the task. So, you know, I guess clients are being really cautious about that because at the same time we're seeing quite a few candidates, you know, trying to use AI in these types of assessments when they've been specifically instructed not to. And that's where the problem's sort of really occurring. Like, in my view as a recruiter, you would rather be that candidate that 'failed' that technical assessment because you didn't quite score high enough. So, you know, you'll probably be invited again in the future to retake that assessment and it's fine. Like, you know, even when I was at Amazon, people would apply 2, 3 times before they landed a job sometimes. Whereas, you know, if you've gone into that technical assessment making it very obvious that, you know, you were trying to use AI when you were being specifically instructed not to, then makes it very difficult for that company to want to like re-invite you to apply again if, you know, some of that trust has been broken. So.

17:42 Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's it. It's about respect and trust and like, you know, the, because I had a candidate do like, who came in, we did a technical video interview with them. And we gave them like reasonably, like I would say reasonably easy questions like, does it matter what order you would do encryption and compression in? And the general answer to that is it does. And the reason is because if you encrypt something that's compressed, then that's good. If you do it the other way around though, then you're not going to get any benefit of compression because encrypted data is reasonably uniform. So, like, so there's always, it's always like the correct answer is always to compress first and then encrypt. So, but, um, like the candidate waited 20 to 30 seconds, like basically staring down and then having their eyes do the left to right thing, um, as if you're looking at other monitors and stuff or their phone. Um, and then proceeded to come up with an answer. And then I just threw in like a really bullshit question where there is no correct answer. And he just like made up like fucking stupid stuff. Like, what was— well, I think it was like, how do you do static analysis when you're, you're doing transpilation using Xamarin into, or like .NET MAUI, into an intermediary language? And the answer is you cannot reconcile the, um, outputted code, like, from, like, through the transpilation process at all. There's no static analysis approach. You'll— that if any answer the candidate gives should probably be along the lines of this is a stupid question, you should not ask it. And if they have, if they asked you a proper question, you know, it's like, you don't know, you don't understand the subject matter if it, because it'll hallucinate an answer and try to do its best. So.

19:29 Cole Cornford: I've had some instances like that. There have been a few times where I've had to stop a candidate interview because I meet all of my candidates on Teams or I meet them in person. Like we don't do phone interviews. Interviews when we're screening on behalf of our clients. And it's a way for me to gauge how they would interview with my customers as well. And there have been some candidate interviews I've had to stop so that, you know, I tell them that, okay, like, I'm not receiving any eye contact from you. I don't know whether you're reading off something or— you're just distracted, but just being very clear with you right now that, you know, this is not gonna sit well in a future interview with any of our customers. So just wanted to point that out. And like normally by that time, like some people would like, you know, stop reading off things, whether it be an AI prompter or whether it be like their CV or whatever notes they've prepared. But, um, yeah, that's been like an increasing trend actually. And it's, it is a little bit concerning.

20:43 Speaker B: It's just as people are really desperate to find work and trying to use whatever shortcuts that they have available to them. And like, I think folk misunderstand that ultimately hiring is a human decision-making process. And it's like, we don't make decisions off of like some large language model saying that, yes, this is the correct person to use.

21:02 Cole Cornford: Yeah. And also it prevents them from building rapport properly with their interviewer. Like, your interviewers are not necessarily looking for the right answers each and every time. They want to know, like, is this a good person for my team? Like, will this person contribute, you know, new skills to my team? Will they fit in with the team? Or, you know, like, you know, complement the team in terms of a number of things. Like, it could be the values, it could be the skills, it could be sort of team fit, personality fit, you know. But yeah, like, when you're using an artificial aid, it's just, it's just gonna really not work in your favor.

21:47 Speaker B: And I get that quite deeply myself because I run a consultancy, and I mean, so the people I bring into my business are ultimately a representation of the things that I accept and the things that um, like matter to me. So I, I universally want to hire for people that are easy to get along with, are friendly and a little bit outgoing, like really technical in their discipline, and have really good work ethics. So, but like all of those are like really good strong human qualities that you can ascertain by just chatting to people like in a pub and just being nice to them. And I imagine that for yourself when you're thinking about what the customers want and also the experience you provide to your customers, You don't want to put forward candidates that are not representative of your business and the values you adhere to.

22:30 Cole Cornford: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We've got a really critical hire at the moment where I'm actually putting a recruiter on site with one of my customers. So this person is representing Youcentric within that SaaS company and they're going to be, you know, you know, an employee of mine, but, you know, working on site with one of my customers. And yeah, that, that that fit, that personality fit, the values alignment, all those soft things are really what matters. So could you imagine if someone was using like some artificial aid to do that interview? Like, it would just not work, like not benefit them whatsoever.

23:13 Speaker B: So that was— you said that you're embedding a recruiter into a SaaS business. So is that— because I know earlier you mentioned internal versus agency, which is models I most use too is you have someone who represents your company internally and gets that stuff, or you go to agencies who have significantly broader, at least in my experience, they're out a lot more, they know a lot more candidates, they go speak to people. Whereas I guess internal recruiters, like, I don't know that much about internal, but you also mentioned embedded. Would you be able to kind of explain a bit about what is the best situation I want to be using each of these? Because I guess a consultancy, I always go agency, I don't want to have internals.

23:51 Cole Cornford: So. Yeah, and it makes sense, right? And at the, at the phase of your business. So I guess with external agencies, we all know what they do. That's what I do primarily, and that's largely working on one-off roles with, you know, various customers. And, you know, I hope that I end up working with them a couple of times a year, for instance. And yeah, you're, you're a consultant from the outside, sort of bringing specialist sort of talent into an organization in that more common scenario. Then you've got internal recruiters that are, in your case, they will be like Gala employees, like on your books, you're paying them a yearly salary. And you know, they're, you know, working with you day in and day out and they are a representative of Gala in the market and probably advising you quite a bit around, you know, market intelligence and advising you around the recruiting process, market mapping, a really good talent partner would be sort of having that really good long-term view about, you know, what your goals are as a business and exactly where you're going to, you know, find that talent in the long term. So that's what they should be doing for you as an internal recruiter. And then you've got embedded, or quite often in Australia we call it RPO, so recruitment process outsourcing, where it is like a hybrid of both. So you will actually have a recruiter that goes on-site, um, to the client's side. So they will be— In, in the case of our company's call, um, a Youcentric employee going on-site at Gala, um, and I guess, helping you, helping you there. And, you know, doing a lot of the things that an internal recruiter would do. But there is a slightly sort of different model. So rather than them being one of your direct employees, they'll be one of mine working on site, either full-time or fractionally for you. And I guess, you know, it's my responsibility responsibility in that situation to make sure that they are properly trained, delivering to what you need. And in this case where we will have an embedded recruiter go on site to one of our SaaS companies that we support, I'll be their backup. You know, if ever they tell me, oh, hey, Kim, I'm struggling to find, you know, a sales leader in Singapore, I'm having trouble trying to find Kim.

26:33 Speaker B: They always want sales leaders in Singapore, don't they? Why is it always?

26:37 Cole Cornford: I want my That's the person that you're into behind.

26:41 Speaker B: Firstly, I want my vice president of sales in Singapore, but they also need to be an SDR. So like, it's—

26:46 Cole Cornford: Yes, yes, yes.

26:47 Speaker B: But like, to me, it sounds like my— I have a service offering similar to that called AppSec as a Service, where I basically get like someone effectively dedicated to an account effectively 2 days a week. And then there's a variety of AppSec activities that we would pull on a broader Galah workforce to go and deliver. So like strategy conversations, you get me involved because I have a reasonable brain. It's not that bird brain, but it's a good one. So, but then like, you know, pen tests or code reviews, or like, they're usually specialist skills. And the person who's embedded will understand what order do I want to be doing these things and then liaising with their customers internally. So it, I think that's a good model. I mean, it works for me, so it's got to work for you too, right?

27:27 Cole Cornford: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that from a sort of costing perspective as well, with an RPO solution, as opposed to, you know, charging like an external agency would. Like, this would mean like for us, like a flat fee for our customer for that term. So for us, it's going to be a 1-year commitment. So the model is going to be very different. And that's what we're experimenting with going into this year. So that's going to be a new offering from us. And it was really, you know, my way of being able to like add value to customers in a different way because quite often, like, yes, I do sort of share a lot of my internal recruitment experience with our customers, but you know, that would be an arrangement where, you know, they could truly benefit from having that internal recruitment knowledge. without having to recruit an internal recruiter themselves.

28:31 Speaker B: That's it, that's it. Well, moving, moving on for topics, um, I think that I'd like to probably finish up on understanding what you're thinking is going to happen next year on like, a, just the broad tech industry, but also just the general recruitment landscape. So what do you think's gonna happen?

28:47 Cole Cornford: Yeah, so I actually think that there are very common patterns that we're starting to see unfold right now that is pretty similar to the 2023 period. And sadly, that means, you know, sort of lots of layoffs are happening right now and lots of restructures.

29:08 Speaker B: It's all disguised as AI productivity, right? But it's actually just the economy's rubbish.

29:15 Cole Cornford: Yeah, like, you know, that could be a whole podcast on its own.

29:19 Speaker B: Let's get my can of worms open and just like—

29:22 Cole Cornford: Definitely. Um, but I think the, the distinction to make here is that similar to 2023, this has been happening a lot among our enterprise customers and our very large customers and a lot of the tech vendors we're seeing, that's where a lot of the layoffs are occurring. And some of the SIs as well, the big, big players. I think that what that means is that there'll be a lot of really good talent in the market, but what that means for that talent is that they're going to have to readjust some of their expectations to suit what the local market is like and what the local market, local market pays. That's always a big adjustment for a lot of people coming out of big tech and You know, being a former talent acquisition manager at Amazon, I know exactly how much those salaries are and how they compare to some, you know, local players. So that's going to be quite an adjustment for quite a lot of people. But at the same time, you know, it's not all grim because I'm seeing a lot of movement and a lot of hiring happening with a lot of our growing customers. So our customers that are, you know, sort of roughly 50 to 100 people, like, they're hiring quite a lot, and that's been really nice to see. And some of them are extremely busy right now. So, um, it's not all— it's not all grim. Um, and I, you know, sort of really look forward to seeing, you know, people make new moves in their career. And, you know, if not making new moves in their career, they might end up, you know, getting the nudge they need to do what you and I did as well, Cole, and, you know, get started with their own businesses too.

31:16 Speaker B: Like, having a change— like, it's a forced change. Maybe you didn't want the force, but like, that could be all you need to go out and do something that's like, you know, different and fun and helps you grow tremendously. Like, I think every person I know who's given entrepreneurship a go— like, a red-hot go, not just like tried it for 2 months and then chucked it in— they've given it a year or two, has come out of it and become a lot better as a manager and individual contributor, or just like director in another company. Cause there's a lot of things that they understand having run a business previously that most of the other employees wouldn't get. And I do agree very much with what you said earlier about the, uh, the expectation management. Like I think there's at least even locally, it's not just big tech. It's also perma-contractors. I'm noticing like people who've only worked at banks or they've only worked in government and they're used to. constant $2,000 a day contracting deals. And then they come to market and you say, well, there's a, instead of being 90 contracting positions, there's 7. Are you at the caliber to be one of those 7? Well, then you've got to accept a permanent position or a significant pay cut. And I find a lot of those people have like really leveraged themselves into a place where then often it's not easy for them to do that. So. Yeah. Yeah.

32:32 Cole Cornford: It is difficult, but you know, that's the whole nature of temp and contract work. You are compensated significantly higher because you're not getting paid leave and a lot of the other benefits that come with a permanent role. So you need to actually make a 20 to 30% adjustment the moment you go from contract to perm.

32:53 Speaker B: That's okay. Anyway, Kim, thank you so much for coming on Secured. It's been great to get some insight into the security— sorry, into the recruitment industry. I know that, like, I hope that artificial intelligence doesn't disrupt us too much and we could continue being humans for as long as possible.

33:09 Cole Cornford: Next time we're on the podcast, we'll both be our robot selves.

33:14 Speaker B: We'll get our avatars to talk and have a podcast for us. There's actually podcast creation AI things out there, and someone asked me the other day, they're like, when are you gonna just like get your voice, give it to the AI thing and make it start making podcasts for you, and I'm just like, the day that I die. So he wants to cure the geek out.

33:33 Cole Cornford: I don't want to listen to that. You're so much more entertaining when you're your real self.

33:37 Speaker B: See, that's it. Like, people don't listen to podcasts just because, like, it necessarily is purely about the information. It's also going to be, like, funny and interesting, and, like, like, people bring their unique human experiences to it. So, but, like, I really appreciate your unique human experiences.

33:54 Cole Cornford: Thank you so much, Cole. It's been such a pleasure to chat with you. It always is. So thank you so much for having me as a guest.

34:06 Speaker B: Thanks a lot for listening to this episode of Secured. If you've got any feedback at all, feel free to hit us up and let us know. If you'd like to learn more about how Galar Cyber can help keep your business secured, go to galarcyber.com.au.