Leslie is the Indigenous Entrepreneurship Director at Minderoo Foundation, an Australian not-for-profit organisation seeking effective, scalable solutions to persistent problems. Leslie’s role at Minderoo is part of their Generation One initiative, with the goal of creating employment parity with and for Indigenous Australians. Leslie also founded DreamSpark, a tech, investment and Web 3.0 enterprise, and co-founded Covocate, a HR Tech platform that helps companies identify their best job candidates. In his conversation with Adam, Leslie discusses some of the unique challenges facing Indigenous founders, as well as what he sees as the role of government in the startup ecosystem.
Minderoo: https://www.minderoo.org/Generation One: https://www.minderoo.org/generation-one/Leslie on Twitter: https://twitter.com/lesdelaforce
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Adam Spencer: Let me tell you about our partner, Teamified. If you need to build a top-notch team quickly, Teamified is your go-to solution. They not only provide fractional CTOs, they can also do contractors and even remote team members tailored exactly to your needs. And whether you're looking for expertise in the Philippines, India, or Sri Lanka, Teamified has you covered. What's amazing is that Teamified uses a blend of AI and human expertise to cut hiring times by 50%, cent. The platform handles everything from automated onboarding to day-to-day management and even performance tracking. You can also handle rewards and recognition, buy equipment, and order training all through their platform. Simplify your hiring process and get the best talent fast with Teamified. Check them out now and transform your team. Go to dayone.fm/teamified. That's dayone.fm/teamified. Thank you, T-E-A-M-I-F-I-E-D, and get started today. Hi, I'm Adam Spencer, founder of the Day One Network, which is bringing the history of the Australian startup ecosystem to you. I believe in founders. It's why I do everything I do at Day One and our media company, W2D1 Media. And that's why the Day One Network exists, to create helpful content for founders. We've got some great shows in development, but a large part of what we do couldn't be done without support from our partners and sponsors. And I couldn't be happier than to be working with NTP, who get community better than any other technology recruitment company out there. A Newcastle company like mine, NTP are invested in seeing the growth of the local tech community in Newcastle, Sydney, and more broadly Australia. So thank you, NTP, for helping us bring helpful content to founders and the startup community in Australia.
Leslie Delaforce: Back to the interview.
Adam Spencer: Hi, I'm Adam Spencer, founder of the Day One Network, which is bringing the history of the Australian startup ecosystem to you. I believe in founders. It's why I do everything I do at Day One and our media company, W2D1 Media. And that's why the Day One Network exists, to create helpful content for founders. We've got some great shows in development, but a large part of what we do couldn't be done without support from our partners and sponsors. And I couldn't be happier than to be working with NTP, who get community better than any other technology recruitment company out there. A Newcastle company like mine, NTP are invested in seeing the growth of the local tech community in Newcastle, Sydney, and more broadly Australia. So thank you, NTP, for helping us bring helpful content to founders and the startup community in Australia. Back to the interview. Hi, I'm Adam Spencer and welcome to Day One, the podcast that spotlights Australian startups, founders, and the organizations that empower Australian entrepreneurship. We go back to the beginning to tell the story of Australia's most inspiring founders and how they built their companies. You're listening to a special interview series as part of a documentary W2D1 is producing about the history of the Australian startup ecosystem. On the episode today, we have—
Speaker C: Hi, I'm Les Dallaforce. I'm a Gumbaynggandangadi man from the mid-north coast of New South Wales originally. I'm the Indigenous Entrepreneurship Director at Mindaroo Foundation Generation One, and I've been involved in the startup ecosystem for the last 6 to 8 years. So from raising capital with startups to scaling, exiting, and everything in between.
Leslie Delaforce: Can you tell me a bit about the work that Mindaroo does?
Speaker C: Yeah, sure. We are— Mindaroo Foundation was established by our co-chairs Andrew and Nicola Forrest, and there's a range of initiatives that we try and tackle global problems and challenges that could be from Walk Free, which is eradicating modern slavery to removing plastics from the oceans. And in the area I work in is Generation One, and our mountain top, our goal is to create employment parity within 4 Indigenous Australians within one generation. So from my startup background, it's a weird transition into a big not-for-profit like this and why. And it's, we, the team I lead is purely around Indigenous entrepreneurship, how we create the opportunities for Indigenous startups to thrive and survive and be successful.
Leslie Delaforce: I'd love to go deeper on that and we might a little bit in the interview down the road, but if we don't, I'd love to do another interview with you outside of this kind of innovation ecosystem series that I'm doing.
Speaker C: Yeah, for sure, man. Yeah, absolutely.
Leslie Delaforce: So when did you first get involved in the startup ecosystem?
Speaker C: When I first got involved, it was around the 2015, 2014 mark, thereabouts. And at the time I was working for the WA in the public sector. So I had moved across from New South Wales all the way to Perth, and Perth reminded me of my own hometown, Port Macquarie. And at that time, I was a little bit disenfranchised and seeing some of the challenges that people experienced trying to gain employment within the public sector, and it was based purely on technical skills. So for us, as a colleague and I went, let's just flip it on its head. Let's try and build a startup where we could recruit based on values. So Google at that stage just introduced their recruiting algorithms. There was a lot of controversy around can algorithms recruit better than humans? So it was around that 2015 mark, we jumped in, built a set of algorithms, built a little startup, went through a myriad of challenges and then eventually raised capital a couple of years later.
Leslie Delaforce: So what were we, 2014, 2015? Is that what you said?
Adam Spencer: Yeah.
Leslie Delaforce: Western Australia, what is the ecosystem in terms of community size, you know, organizations around support? What did the landscape look like around 2014, 2015?
Speaker C: The landscape was still evolving. It was a few years before that, it was quite immature, really quite new, but it was really led by Space Cube over here, one of the major coworking spaces, definitely led by that. And that created a lot of buzz in the town. At that time, we had a really big lull in mining. And so this is obviously a massive mining state. But right at the time, it was, HR tech was booming. So we were in the right place, right time with our startup. But it was a period of time where like post-GFC, iron ore price crashed and obviously as did mining royalties. But there's a lot of investors in WA, a lot of high net worth investors. So they're looking at placing their funds elsewhere. And at the time, interestingly, you saw a lot of backdoor listings So rather than raising capital through angels or even VC, startups are going straight to backdoor listings, which is unbelievable. They go to West Perth and meet with an investor or a firm that would provide them with a mandate about listing on the ASX. And it was the point in time where I think startups, I wouldn't say ruined it, but it made it a lot more challenging. We had, or we had seen startups like OnePage back in the day, Refined, another one. But also the talk of the town back then was definitely Theranos. Like right now, looking at Theranos, the challenges that they're going through legally, Theranos, the buzz was everywhere. Everything, everywhere you'd see, you'd read, it was about Theranos. So it was, the trends were definitely backdoor listings for startups and going straight to IPO, to listing on the stock exchange. Mm-hmm. Which is an interesting time, then the ASX changed their listing mandate.
Leslie Delaforce: Outside of Spacecubed, were there any other kind of big support or coworking spaces or other support organizations, or was it kind of they were the main game in town?
Speaker C: Yeah, predominantly they were the main players in town, and they started around that 2011 mark, and really, I mean, just a couple of desks in an old bank safe from Westpac. Certainly one of the leaders over here. There are a few smaller coworking spaces, but as of today, you look around today, there's from WeWork to Tankstream Labs.
Leslie Delaforce: Yeah.
Speaker C: And then all of the very smaller coworking spaces all spread out. 'Cause WA is the largest or most spread out capital city in the world. So there's a lot of land mass over here and we're seeing a lot of other coworking spaces in the likes of Geraldton or the Southwest in Busselton and locations like that. But Space Cube were definitely the pioneers.
Leslie Delaforce: This is a bit of a side question, so, you know, if you don't want to answer it, that's fine. But I've just— you've mentioned Space Cube 2011. People, you know, we've got Fishburners on the East Coast in Sydney 2012, River City Labs 2012, 2013 in Brisbane. It seems, yeah, is it a coincidence or not that all of these big coworking spaces popped up at around the same time and Do you think they were a catalyst to help things move along or was there a thing that prompted them and what was that thing that prompted all these coworking spaces to pop up, do you think?
Speaker C: Yeah, that's a really good question and certainly I did a bit of work for Tankstream Labs over here in Perth and established that business in Perth a few years ago and obviously new market entrance and then you have WeWork entering the space. But around that time, it was really popularized by the 4-Hour Workweek and everywhere you'd see everyone was was reading that book back then and I was probably, I wouldn't say one of the last, but I was just like, the title didn't grab me. And then I read it on a flight heading back home to New South Wales and that drew me in. And it felt like around the time where Tim Ferriss podcast was then starting to blow up, 4-Hour Workweek was out there then, and all these coworking spaces were all just starting to pop up. And I guess based on a lot of podcasts from Silicon Valley, and I think it was really driven across the country really around the same time, whether it's Fishburners and York Butter Factory and Space Cube and Tankstream Labs. It was almost at this point in time, this, this natural transition into coworking spaces, and it's really grown rapidly. Obviously COVID has impacted that sector massively, but seeing some of those really transition out and looking at other different business models as well.
Leslie Delaforce: So jumping ahead to present day, I'd love to go back a bit more and talk about that kind of what happened between 2015 to present and how you've observed things change over that time. But for the moment, what are some of the gaps present day that you observe in the ecosystem?
Speaker C: Some of the gaps, I think talent is widely distributed, but opportunity is not. So the talent gap is a significant challenge for a lot of startups. So where you've got some incredible capital raises from the likes of Canva most recently, was it 50% of their staff were employed last year and predominantly developers. It's really hard to find devs. It's one of Australia's most amazing successes, them and Atlassian in the startup sector. But the talent piece is really hard. So in WA in particular, trying to find developers and quality developers with experience is really quite hard, particularly in the crypto blockchain space as well. And been in that area since 2018. 17, early 2017, end of 2016. Seeing that even more so now with this, another resurgence of crypto. So where you got talent across the country is really widely distributed, opportunities not necessarily. So for a different, a lot of different diverse groups. And that's the, I think the exciting thing we're seeing now around AirTree, their Explorer program, or Startmate with First Believers. Some of the programs that we're trying to run is leveling the playing field for diverse groups where they can access startups. Like for me, being born in Kempsey, raising capital with an Indigenous background, the challenges that we face, lack of intergenerational wealth, access to networks, access to capital. And then there I was in 2017 raising capital in Sydney, Martin Place with VC firms and having not done this before.
Adam Spencer: Yeah.
Speaker C: It's certainly an understanding how to go through this. I think now we're seeing a lot of programs in place to support that, particularly people with diverse backgrounds, whether women, Aboriginal people, people of color backgrounds, and people with disabilities. But then still trying to access the right talent in a massive geographical landmass across the country as well. So COVID certainly, I think, helped with that as well, where we, when we were raising capital, we would have to fly every second or third day, Sydney, Melbourne, Singapore, just to raise capital. Now we can just take it on video conferencing.
Leslie Delaforce: Again, speaking about challenges, you listed off a couple there, but what are some unique, just out of curiosity, I've got Aboriginal ancestry and I'm curious to understand what are some of the unique challenges that you're seeing, you know, the people that you're helping face?
Speaker C: Yeah, that's a really good question. That's pretty much my entire role to help overcome some of those pretty significant challenges. Starting off, we would, for Aboriginal people, those 3 key factors were probably the most critical. So we in Mindaroo Foundation Gen 1, we launched a report earlier this year and we went out to hundreds of Aboriginal entrepreneurs across the country We had focus groups across the country, we commissioned a report into Indigenous entrepreneurship, and what interestingly what came out of that was the lack of networks or the access to networks, access to capital, financial literacy, and lack of intergenerational wealth. So for example, for a lot of Aboriginal people that have come from nothing, growing up in Kempsey, you didn't necessarily have much, but once you got a job, you'd hold on to it. Yeah. Because you don't know what's going to happen next and that lack of intergenerational wealth, then to take a risk and throw it all in for a startup is, for a lot of Aboriginal people, is very unlikely. So for me over here, and I'm fortunate with the background of my family that, you know, took risks and had a solid foundation for us, flying across to WA and then throwing in a full-time public sector job At the time when we were raising capital and my wife was 6 months pregnant, there was no salary for 12 months at that stage, but I, or the team, we believed in what we were building and we were 2 weeks away from losing everything and we eventually raised capital and we made it, but it was just through hard work and perseverance through those, really those 3 key things. If we had those networks and we see this quite a lot, where non-Indigenous startups, not all, but some would have some networks and typically access family and friends rounds, but we don't necessarily have. So there's a number of barriers and that's why there's a big focus, not just for us, there's a lot of different programs out there supporting Aboriginal entrepreneurs, how to become investor ready or ready to invest in. And certainly that's what I experienced, especially looking around and going, I'm raising capital with all these VCs, I've never done this before back in the day, but who can I talk to? What other Aboriginal person has raised venture capital? And couldn't find anyone. So we didn't realize at the time we were one of the first indigenous startups to raise venture capital. And then eventually it's imparting our knowledge onto the next generation.
Leslie Delaforce: Another quick side question, talking about support out there for Aboriginal founders or indigenous founders, apart from Mindaroo, can you list off a few like what places can people go to?
Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. There's some amazing groups out there. It's really driven by 3 levels. One at a grassroots level, so from the likes of IndigiTech over in Sydney, definitely focus on tech-based and STEM roles within the startup ecosystem. They do an amazing job in Sydney, but also moving to Melbourne. Then you've also got like the co-working spaces that are shifting into Indigi now. You've got the WIRA Hub over here in WA, You've got the Yarra Harbour, New South Wales Indigenous Chamber of Commerce. Also Kina Way do an amazing job. Then at the university sector, you've got a number of programs. RMIT have Ngami, Melbourne Business School have Murra Masterclass, and I was an alumni of the Murra Masterclass. But it was just, there's, we're seeing definitely 3 levels, but it's being driven predominantly by this grassroots approach for Indigenous entrepreneurship.
Leslie Delaforce: What are some of the areas that you think we're doing as a community really well in? And maybe also what makes our ecosystem, if you can comment on this, what makes our ecosystem unique compared to other ecosystems that maybe you've observed?
Speaker C: I think community, the focus on community at a macro level from that Australian level that we, the community that we have, we really stick together. We find in the corporate space that it's really, no, it's extremely competitive. Whereas in the startup ecosystem, you see a lot of complementary support between startups and founders. The other thing I think we're doing really well, and it's only been the last 12, probably 18 months, it's been really incredible to see these new venture funds that are popping up. So typically, to get into venture capital, you've got to have a large exit or have networks in the sector. However, seeing the rise of the like Afterworks, Tractor Ventures, or Flying Fox, there's this unique growth that's occurring across the country. And forming those syndicates and venture capital funds where people with that experience can get into investing into startups. Obviously, a challenge is being the sophisticated investor. The asset test is a massive challenge and it's been widely publicized. But even over here, we, the programs we ran with the Indigenous, prospective Indigenous angels, the group, the 12 of those angels went, let's form the Black Angels. Let's form our own angel group and let's invest in the next generation of indigenous startups coming through. So I think that's really quite unique and it's really amazing to see where a lot of young people, not just young, but people want to get into venture capital, but then there's those barriers and then you're starting to see like the likes of Tractor Ventures and Flying Fox breaking down those barriers. It's really incredible to see.
Leslie Delaforce: Why do you think young people are attracted to that? Why they want to get involved in venture capital?
Speaker C: I think a big reason is how, and it might sound silly and just completely left field, is house prices. There's an amazing article recently in Sydney Morning Herald about young people, particularly in Sydney and Melbourne, but in particular Sydney, trying to enter the housing market and the average price of a house. So young people then forming together syndicates and then investing in startups as that opportu— as that asset to move forward. So where they could be priced out of Sydney in the housing market, they can move to a regional location, work on the startup, but also pull their money together and invest in startups to have that asset where a house might be out of reach.
Adam Spencer: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.
Leslie Delaforce: So this question, it's written down. I don't know if you have an answer for this, but do you have an unpopular opinion about the startup, about, yeah, anything in the startup ecosystem that people just aren't on the same page?
Speaker C: Yeah, certainly. I think it's almost state by state. So the unpopular opinion is definitely raising capital in WA is hard. It's really split down the line in in Western Australia around if you're a good, if you're a decent startup, you'll, you will raise capital. But there's still, I think it's still extremely hard to raise capital in, in WA. There's, and obviously there's a variety of reasons, but Sydney, Melbourne is still far easier to raise capital. We lose a lot of founders that are moving over east and part of the role, my other role with on the board of Startup WA is then how do we retain the talent in WA and without all the founders moving to either Sydney or Melbourne and in Brisbane including. But there's— while WA has significant capital available for early stage businesses, they're not startups. They're predominantly junior mining exploration companies. And asking other companies like some of the Big Four, why, why is this? We like— WA likes to take risks, but it's predominantly in mining, and mining is a 100-year-old sector. And but people really know. But the thing is that One feedback was that you can, or some feedback that you can price a ton of iron ore, but it's hard to price an early stage startup. It's also tangible. Iron ore is tangible, whereas a SaaS startup is quite intangible. And so that's probably an unpopular opinion about raising capital in WA. I still think it is hard. It is getting a little bit better, but we can certainly learn from New South Wales, the Sydney Startup Hub. And also Launch Vic in Victoria, that the role of government plays as an enabler.
Leslie Delaforce: What do you think about the role of government in the startup ecosystem? Are you for it or against it or in the middle somewhere?
Speaker C: I'm definitely in the middle. Having worked in the public sector and worked for government for 8 years, I can certainly see how government can stifle innovation, and innovation certainly happens outside of government without a doubt. And even with my startup, I had to leave the public sector, but government plays a role as an enabler. So if you look at the funding New South Wales state government's provided the Sydney Startup Hub, or Victoria, the state government has provided Launch Vic, is massive and that could create significant change. And you're seeing some incredible progress and programs and projects and outcomes in Victoria and obviously in New South Wales. We are getting a little bit better, but because this state has focused predominantly on mining. Tech and innovation has sort of dwindled a little bit in terms of startups, like not in the mining industry. You've got automation, technology is massive, but in particular in WA, we've certainly seen a lot more support. And at Startup WA, thanks to the state government, we're running a number of programs for regional founders, female founders, and Indigenous founders as well, like trying to keep this talent here and grow that ecosystem. But— It should be an enabler, but not getting in the way of innovation. And if we look at an example, cryptocurrency back in 2016, '17, 3 regulatory Commonwealth government regulatory bodies couldn't agree on what crypto was. Was it property? Was it a security, for example? So it's certainly an enabler and a decent enabler.
Leslie Delaforce: What attracts you to this startup ecosystem, to founders?
Speaker C: Ah, that's a really good question. Particularly, we've just closed a massive program with 100 founders going through our Dream Venture Masterclasses. What attracts me? For me, it's the camaraderie. It's, uh, you don't have to— like, when— like, I was always interested in getting, getting into politics when I was in government, but You don't have to play politics in startups like in government. Obviously, that's what it is. It's politics. It's getting involved in the politics. And that wasn't me. My values didn't really align there. My values align more in the startup ecosystem where it's all about collaboration. And having exited my startup a few years ago and then building the Tankstream Labs business over here in WA and seeing all of these new startups coming on board, helping each other out, learning from each other how they can scale. Like, a lot of these startups were just on the, you know, working on the sniff of an oily rag. Some made it, some— and a lot failed, obviously. But seeing that camaraderie and people sticking together as a team, it just felt— it sounds weird, but it felt like the Indigenous community. It felt like being a part of mob. Felt like you know, you're a part of something, you're a part of this movement. And it was really quite powerful to be part of that movement.
Leslie Delaforce: Was it— did you want to get involved in politics to affect change?
Speaker C: Absolutely, yep. Coming from Kempsey, uh, it was— my parents made some big choices to provide a, you know, a stable environment for us as kids, my sister and I. And it was— and well, how do we— it was always taught about giving back, giving back to community. And it was just getting involved with in working in government and then looking at getting involved with politics is how do we create change for everyone and really level that playing field? But what I found working in the public sector is really driven by the government of the day, understandably. And so to come up with new ideas could be quite challenging and would take time. Whereas what I've found when leaving the public sector, if you've got an idea, you've got now the tools, the technology, you don't need a $15,000 server in the NIM. Mm-hmm. Back room where you can just, you've got AWS now, you can really scale ideas and execute on ideas. So seeing that from the startup sector to Minderoo, you've got an idea, let's go for it, let's try it, and not being afraid of failure as well.
Leslie Delaforce: Yeah, I interviewed Steve Baxter last week and he said he thinks that being a founder, being an entrepreneur is one of the highest callings in life because you can really, effect change. You can really have a direct effect on the world with your business. And I agree with that.
Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I see some of the participants coming through the masterclass just recently. It just sounds like it's the Dream Venture Masterclasses and Digital Entrepreneurs going through one side, Perspective Indigenous Angels going through the other side. And then you've got, there's a live simulation pitch at the end and with the amazing support, the Googles and Microsoft, Blackbird, Airtree, Startmate, et cetera. But in the process though, you've got, you're listening to people's stories, these Aboriginal founders' stories. And we had, it was, I think it was the Melbourne pitch night. There were 3 out of the 9 pitches all burst into tears. It was just, and then everyone on the call, like what these founders went through and then the perseverance, the resilience and the building a business and that business then That startup was that catalyst then to show all their family and all other mob out there that you can do this. Look at the hell that, you know, you've gone through and then come out the other side to have a successful business. And that was their calling. Like it was just to see 20, 30 other, and blokes as well, bursting into tears on the call. It was just, it gives you tingles down your spine to go, this is the change that we're creating. Like this is just, it is really powerful to be a part of just not, you know, the startup movement, but to see some of the change that we're creating. Yeah.
Leslie Delaforce: What advice, given all the founders you've seen and helped and seen at these pitch events, like what advice would you give them?
Speaker C: Certainly perseverance and not being afraid to go full-time into your startup. Like, I've found that there's a lot of founders that sit on the sidelines and understandably, you need some income coming in, but taking that risk and jumping straight into it and it's the hours, like the only way you're gonna go into do that is pulling the hours and obviously getting out there their networks, building your networks. Um, you've got the Sydney Startup Hub obviously with the Tankstream Labs and Fishburners and Stone and Chalk in there to build relationships and networks. Uh, getting out, getting amongst, and joining up, whether it's, um, uh, launch— well, going to launch programs, Startup WA for example. But taking that risk, have you got that idea? You've got an opportunity right now where technology can play a significant role, is then jumping full-time into it once you've got some traction. And then absolutely going for it.
Leslie Delaforce: I've got a question here which you'll see on your sheet too. It's what has been a recent development in the startup world that you think has been a really big deal? But if we kind of shift that question a bit to, 'cause we didn't really just talk much about the kind of, you know, when did you say you moved over to Western Australia?
Speaker C: Was it— 12 years ago.
Leslie Delaforce: Yeah. So what's, you know, maybe a big broad sweeping change or set of smaller changes that have affected the ecosystem that you've observed over the last 12 years?
Speaker C: Oh, it's a really good question. I wouldn't say it'd be regulation or wouldn't be driven by government. It'd be driven by more of a grassroots movement. It'd definitely be the development of these local venture capital funds. And like a few of them have started, like After Work. Ventures have started over here in WA, local angel groups as well, building their syndicates to access some of these deals. Predominantly, even when I started in 2015, '16, it felt like, you know, as a high net worth, you could just go to 708s, or sophisticated investors, to seek investment.
Adam Spencer: Yeah.
Speaker C: I think now there are really two things. Crowdfunding is really difficult, starting to level the playing field. And particularly Indigenous startups. There was one last week raised $1 million for a non-alcoholic indigenous beer, the $10 million valuation. So crowdfunding has really leveled the playing field and shone a light on startups.
Leslie Delaforce: Sorry, they raised a million bucks through crowdfunding?
Speaker C: Yep, yep.
Leslie Delaforce: Wow.
Speaker C: Yep. So Sober, yeah, an indigenous non-alcoholic beer, yeah, raised a million dollars just recently on, I think it was on Virtual, on one of the platforms, crowdfunding platforms. But to see a lot of other Aboriginal business owners and entrepreneurs then invest in the, uh, in Sova was really quite refreshing. Uh, from an Indigenous side, the Indigenous Procurement Policy has been one massive thing. It's been an injection of $4 billion, $4 billion into the Indigenous business ecosystem. So you've got a lot of successful Indigenous business owners, but the startup equity investment side has just really plateaued and it's, it's only recently become a, like a nascent sector. Mm-hmm., but now starting to rapidly grow. So from Indigenous side, it's definitely the Indigenous Procurement Policy and now this rapid growth of Indigenous startups coming through from high growth emerging tech to more standard traditional businesses from fashion, retail, mining. Then yeah. And then from a, from the point of view around access to funding. So predominantly where it was just high net worths, now these syndicates getting together and building like Afterwork Ventures or the Black Angels over here and these angel groups that are really leveling the playing field for all to get involved in investing in startups.
Leslie Delaforce: The last question I have, not really a question, I want to give you a few minutes to just share something that's, you know, important to you, that's on the top of your head, keeping in mind that I'm trying to create a documentary here that will really tell the story of the Australian startup ecosystem. We want policymakers, academics, founders, investors, people from all corners of the ecosystem to hear hear this story, what would you want to tell them? Any one of those categories or all of them, what's the message that, you know, they need to hear from Les?
Speaker C: The message I'd say is, yeah, that talent is widely distributed, opportunity is not. So if we can help level that playing field and make it easier for all to access, or access to become an entrepreneur, and government being that enabler, to support that. But obviously access to capital, that's one significant aspect. I think we look at Harlem Capital in the US, a very small— it's the ecosystem of what's being built right now. But this, it's such an incredible, important ecosystem where it started from $2 million and built a $200 million fund just of a bunch of African American founders. So the support that is, I think, is needed right now is leveling the playing field for all to get into this space. Predominantly it was for high net worths from an investment point of view. And then this is an opportunity right now and is really quite timely that leveling the playing field from being just a sophisticated investor exclusive to those high net worths to then for everyone to be a part of this change. Startups then create significant change and we're seeing like the, the programs we're running is impacting. Yeah. Social impact. We know a lot of startups then create impact in the community and predominantly social impact. It's not just for the, the profit, it's not just for the dollar, and it's not just for ticking a box for a CSR target. It's actually tangible change that the startup ecosystem is creating. And that's whether that's Indigenous startups or female founder-led startups, startups in general across the entire country. It's this— the makeup of this ecosystem that really needs in terms of leveling the playing field and accessing investment.
Adam Spencer: I hope you enjoyed that interview. More interviews are on the way. Follow the podcast wherever you're listening right now. Stay tuned for more interviews with many, many more amazing people from the Australian startup ecosystem. Thanks for listening and see you next time.
Leslie Delaforce: Bye.
