Louise Nobes: Australian startup ecosystem needs to be brave enough to “think untraditionally”

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0:59 Louise Nobes: Hi, I'm Adam Spencer, founder of the Day One Network, which is bringing the history of the Australian startup ecosystem to you. I believe in founders. It's why I do everything I do at Day One and our media company, W2D1 Media. And that's why the Day One Network exists, to create helpful content for founders. We've got some great shows in development. But a large part of what we do couldn't be done without support from our partners and sponsors. And I couldn't be happier than to be working with NTP, who get community better than any other technology recruitment company out there. A Newcastle company like mine, NTP are invested in seeing the growth of the local tech community in Newcastle, Sydney, and more broadly Australia. So thank you NTP for helping us bring— Thank you. Helpful content to founders and the startup community in Australia. Back to the interview. Hi, I'm Adam Spencer, founder of the Day One Network, which is bringing the history of the Australian startup ecosystem to you. I believe in founders. It's why I do everything I do at Day One and our media company, W2D1 Media. And that's why the Day One Network exists, to create helpful content for founders. We've got some great shows in development. But a large part of what we do couldn't be done without support from our partners and sponsors. And I couldn't be happier than to be working with NTP, who get community better than any other technology recruitment company out there. A Newcastle company like mine, NTP are invested in seeing the growth of the local tech community in Newcastle, Sydney, and more broadly Australia. So thank you NTP for helping us bring helpful content to founders and the startup community in Australia. Back to the interview.

2:46 Speaker C: Hi, I'm Adam Spencer and welcome to Day One, the podcast that spotlights Australian startups, founders, and the organizations that empower Australian entrepreneurship. We go back to the beginning to tell a story of Australia's most inspiring founders and how they built their companies. You're listening to a special interview series as part of a documentary W2D1 is producing about the history of the Australian startup ecosystem. On the episode today, we have—

3:18 Speaker D: I'm Louise Knowles. I am the founder and CEO of Kick Innovation and 42 Adelaide.

3:25 Speaker E: Yeah, can you tell me a little bit about Kick Innovation and 42 Adelaide?

3:30 Speaker D: Of course. So Kick Innovation is a social innovation organization looks at solving the complex issue of youth unemployment. I started that organization 6 years ago, and it was purely because I was a frustrated social worker, to be honest. I felt over the 15 years of my career, I just became a glorified admin person and really was struggling with the big question around complex social issues, and I didn't feel like I was— Mm-hmm. Doing anything that was really pursuing the plight that I wanted to do and, and change really big systems in our world. So 42 Adelaide is our new baby. It's 100% free software engineering degree that we've licensed from France, and we are currently 28 days of operations. So the organization I founded has brought in that license exclusively into Australia. So a really exciting time for us.

4:35 Speaker E: You've done so much. When was the first time that you really— when was the first year that you would comfortably call yourself an entrepreneur?

4:45 Speaker D: Oh, comfortably? I don't even know if I'm at that year at this point. But, um, I think I really disrupted myself and chose to become really uncomfortable in my own career, and I think that that's a turning point for any entrepreneur, was probably 2015. That's when I really started feeling that if I didn't make a shift or if I didn't try something, um, that I felt was going to be more aligned to my values and solving complex social problems, I would just become stuck and bitter and a very frustrated social worker. So definitely it was 2015. Mm-hmm. That I started my journey as an entrepreneur.

5:27 Speaker E: You had a pretty, you know, a pretty good career, a life without barriers. Making that jump from, you know, social worker to quote unquote entrepreneur, A, how did that, was that kind of freeing for you or was it scary? What were some of the biggest, what was the biggest challenge for you making that transition, that jump from secure job to going out on your own?

5:52 Speaker D: I think the biggest challenge was actually holding myself back.

5:55 Adam Spencer: Hmm.

5:56 Speaker D: When you start feeling like you're free falling, which that's what I felt, I did not complete school well the first time around, I actually failed. And so when I made a decision to go back and do year 12 and become a social worker, and I did that because I always felt that our system was unjust and that I wanted to do something to change the world. So, as I became a social worker and, you know, traditionally went through child protection, worked in the welfare system, and then not-for-profits, over those years, this compounding frustration that, hang on a minute, what I'm doing, supporting these amazing communities and individuals, but they're so disconnected from business innovation, and our job was to keep them well within this bubble of disadvantage. So I felt I was free falling really. And that probably happened over 2013 to 2015. And I would not, I just couldn't accept that this is what my life was to be. So when people say, you know, how did you make that jump? I kind of felt like if I didn't make that jump, I'd be, there was no meaning or there was no purpose to my life.

7:15 Speaker E: Back in 2015 or thereabouts when you did make that jump, what did the startup community look like back, you know, 6 years ago in Adelaide? What support was around for you?

7:27 Speaker D: I love this question because this was very much part of my journey. Imagine being a social worker and always being in the community bubble and working to support people to live well and through mental health, disability, homelessness. And then there was this other emerging community and it was called business and entrepreneurship became sexy again. And there was this start of a startup ecosystem going on in Adelaide. And I was looking at that community going, well, hang on a minute, how is this significant large part of the community that I'm involved in every day not connected to that? So I was watching it very enviously and thinking that the two have to emerge.

8:10 Louise Nobes: Mm-hmm.

8:10 Speaker D: But you're really correct. It was very new. And for a lot of people, they didn't even like using the word entrepreneur. It usually meant a high risk taker, a high roller, someone that was really crazy and potentially didn't have good business sense. But to me, it demonstrated everything that the community that I was working with every day could access hope, could access a new way of unlocking new solutions to these really complex problems. So it was a really emergence for me of time, and I found moving into that space really interesting. I want to say a little bit easy. I know that, but when I'm so naive and I had no background history, everything I was exploring every day was forging new pathways. So it was a really exciting time for me.

9:01 Speaker E: A slight side question. I'm just curious to understand, what do you do at the New Flinders New Ventures Institute? Your title is pracademic.

9:13 Speaker D: Look, and I don't, I'm not physically, well, it might still be on my LinkedIn profile, I don't do any pracademic work for them anymore, but I did for a couple of years, and it's a really great emergence of saying, so practically, you are very strong in your innovation and social business ideas, but you don't come with the academic credits, you know, to be a lecturer or someone that, you know, trained to do that. So I was very lucky that I was asked to be a prac academic at Flinders New Vents Institute. And that was to run their pre-acceleration programs called Venture Dorm, but it was also to teach innovation for social impact under their business and entrepreneurship degree. So it was a really good opportunity for me to engage young people that were just starting in their own world of entrepreneurship, and I could provide that really lived experience and look at it through a social lens.

10:14 Speaker E: So over the last 6 years, you've probably seen a lot, accomplished a lot. What are some of the biggest gaps you can— and you can talk to this either from a national perspective or from a South Australia/Adelaide perspective— but what, what are some of the biggest gaps in the ecosystem that you've come across?

10:31 Speaker D: It's a really good question. I think some of the gaps is understanding that social innovation can be just as sexy and as exciting as, you know, some of the key industries that drive— or that people see it— that drive our largest job creations and economy forward. So coming from a social impact lens, everything that we do must ensure that we are supporting the most disadvantaged and lifting them up from all the barriers and pathway barriers that they have. So, that's, for me, is the most difficult part because for the normal ecosystem, and if we look at Adelaide, the high-tech sector, that yes, we are now a part of bringing a software engineering school here, it's a very difficult thing for those two worlds to emerge. So, I find that— Mm-hmm. People really struggle to understand where we fit. And whether that is from funding and an investment perspective, whether that's from, "Hey, Louise, can you be a keynote speaker?" But I always get that fluffy, you get the fluffy speaking spot. Yeah. You get the nice-to-have spot. You know, you are sitting on the verge and there's crazy and then there's crazy crazy. So that is the most, that's how we feel. We feel like we don't really belong anywhere. So I think that that's the biggest gap is how do we feel like we also belong? I think I work with people every day that have felt like they haven't belonged all their life and I'm helping them to feel that, but there's still this gap that social entrepreneurs don't really feel like they belong.

12:15 Speaker E: And the flip side of that a little bit, what do you think, what do you see, what do you feel that we're doing really well as a community, either again South Australia or nationally?

12:28 Speaker D: Well, all I can refer to is, you know, it's actually only taken us 2 and a half years to bring 42 to market. So I think when we step back, everyone says, wow, only 2 and a half years. That is incredible to bring, you know, such a disruptive education model that means everyone can participate in the skills of the future to Adelaide. So still quite an— what can be perceived as an undeveloped market in terms of the high-tech sector and growing economy. So I think that's what we do really well. We have been backed incredibly by the South Australian government that believed in us, obviously didn't think we were too crazy, and it has left this big room for innovation and risk-taking So I think over the last 12 months, there has just been this great opportunity where all things have come together at the right time. And I think that has also been part of, potentially because of COVID the desire to take more risks has been there. And Kick Innovation, we found, we saw that opportunity. So we grabbed hold of it and made sure that 42 was a part of that new story. Yeah.

13:43 Speaker E: You mentioned that you brought 42, you got the licensing for Australia and you brought it out of France.

13:50 Speaker D: Mm-hmm.

13:50 Speaker E: How did you discover that? How did you discover that that existed in France?

13:54 Speaker D: It does sound a bit crazy, doesn't it? How does this social entrepreneur still finding her feet in Adelaide find the greatest education model in France? Well, it comes back, Adam, to The last question you asked me about Flinders New Vents Institute, it was through a colleague there. I was talking to them and reflecting that I felt Kick Innovation was getting stuck as a company while we were training disadvantaged kids in entrepreneurship and innovation. We were pigeonholing, we believe, in retail and hospitality, and it wasn't necessarily solving that big complex social problem. It was doing a great job in validating a range of business models in the ecosystem, but I was feeling personally really frustrated again. It's a common theme, isn't it? Mm-hmm. So, it was a colleague who said, "Have you heard of Fortitude?" Because he knew that I wanted to find the best education model that focused on skills of the future to help us shift out of this hospitality and retail focus that Kick Innovation had previously had. So that's, it just started then and it was me Googling 42, 10:00 PM one night and found it. And when I heard the words of the founder Xavier Neal, that he believed great minds were everywhere and someone's social status should not hinder them from learning, I was literally hooked. I felt like it took a part of my heart.

15:29 Louise Nobes: Mm-hmm.

15:29 Speaker D: And I had to email them. I pursued, I think over the next few hours, the early hours of the morning, I emailed and said, I'm this crazy social entrepreneur in Adelaide and I must have 42 in Australia. And that's how it started.

15:45 Speaker E: What's the biggest learning that you have taken from your previous life, your previous career as a social worker that you've applied to your new career as an entrepreneur?

15:59 Speaker D: Such a great question. To hold on to hope and belief when no one else does. So one thing you are fundamentally taught as a social worker is the power of empowerment. But when people are so down and out and they might be, you know, in the worst shape that they feel, we always hold hope and we always hold belief that they can be great citizens in life. So bringing that through, through everything we've done, but especially in 42, when you are seeing people that have never coded before, didn't finish school, never had a job, and are now learning to code straight away, and how overwhelmingly difficult that is. Let's be honest, software engineering is not an easy skill set to learn. We are holding that hope and belief the whole way through until we can see a little mind shift and we've transferred that. Once we transfer that hope and belief, just watching that shift is phenomenal and they grow so quickly. And then fast forward 4 weeks, they are at a place that is the same place that someone with more confidence and more privilege has. Mm.

17:16 Speaker E: What do you think we could be doing better? You and— we've touched on this, I think you've mentioned a few things, but what could we be doing better as a community?

17:24 Speaker D: That is such a big question. I mean, what can we be doing better as a community is a really difficult one to answer. I think if I was looking at it from a social lens, I think we have to really just be brave enough to think untraditionally and really think through all the systems that we create within our society does eliminate cohorts of people. So, how can we all ever really advance women, our First Nations people, neurodiverse, people from a refugee background? So, when we look at, you know, the high-tech sectors and defence and space areas, for example, there's usually only one cookie-cutter person that represents that model. So, I think that's what we need to do better. If we really want to advance society, we need to be brave enough And so that means we have to back more people. Bringing this to market has probably been the hardest journey I've ever done in the last 2 and a half years. And it could have been made a little bit easier if for the first year, no one just thought I was completely crazy.

18:37 Speaker C: Hahaha.

18:38 Speaker D: And they probably just believed in what I was trying to do and open some more doors because that first year, I think I was just said the same story probably a million times. And while they went, yeah, look, Louise, you have some credibility. We know, we know, you know, you're just trying to do some things that are outside of the box. But yeah, I think if they backed me and helped me, it would have been just interesting to see the difference in my journey.

19:05 Speaker E: Kind of probably drawing on, on that experience a little bit, if a brand new founder or even, you know, yourself, given everything you've learned over the last 6 or so years, going back to brand new entrepreneur, Yep. What one piece of advice would you give yourself or that new entrepreneur?

19:24 Speaker D: Think bigger. I didn't think big enough, I don't think. Think bigger, act braver, don't hold yourself back. Yourself is your number one worst enemy, to be honest. If I know now what I do, I think it's about don't allow your own vision to have a glass ceiling. Just keep pushing. I think we put more limits on ourselves than I've definitely experienced. So, I think that that's the biggest advice is just think bigger. I know that's crazy to say 6 years on, but think bigger and really that helps you actually even step back and go, who do I need to talk to first? If I think about my first few conversations, I should have been thinking a lot bigger.

20:11 Speaker E: The last question isn't really— that's great advice. I'm creating this series and I'm interviewing 200+ people and we've got 15 amazing sponsors on board, but I still want it to be bigger than it is.

20:27 Louise Nobes: Yeah.

20:28 Speaker E: This last question isn't really a question. It's more of a just, I want to open up the floor to you to talk about something that is just top of mind, something that you're thinking about, something that maybe keeps you up at night that you think should that you think people need to hear?

20:44 Speaker D: Wow, that's such a, another really great and open question.

20:49 Speaker E: You know, talk about whatever you want, but maybe to help with some direction, if you need help, you might already have something in mind, but think about the type of people that are going to listen to this series about the history of the Australian startup ecosystem, the founders, policymakers, venture capitalists. If you wanted to change any one of those minds, what would, What would, what would you want to change? What would you want to tell them?

21:11 Speaker D: That social impact is investable. I think we struggle the most to get investment. We're always told, you know, investable models are potentially IPOs and there needs to be an exit. You don't have to exit out of everything because fundamentally to make long-term change, systems change, you need to have people backing you the whole way. We can't grow because we don't have the traditional mechanisms to access. We, we don't have a product that's easily understood in the market because what we do is innovation, um, and we always talk about innovation, but I do believe that people are still seeing a tangible product because it's easy for them to understand, it's easy for them to invest in. So for us, we're only limited because Our size of investment is almost nonexistent compared to the size of investment based on other entrepreneurs because their product is easier to understand. But I believe social innovation and social entrepreneurship is creating a platform that if we get it right and we keep pursuing that, we need everyone to be involved and everyone has great minds. It will then free us up to have many more people part of that ecosystem, more entrepreneurs, more investable ideas. So I think the struggle for us, and what I would love to say to people is, back the crazy ones, you know, back us and believe that we are really just trying to do things for the greatness of our society and our world, really.

22:51 Louise Nobes: I hope you enjoyed that interview.

23:05 Speaker E: More interviews are on the way. Follow the podcast wherever you're listening right now.

23:09 Speaker C: Stay tuned for more interviews with many, many more amazing people from the Australian startup ecosystem.

23:16 Louise Nobes: Thanks for listening and see you next time.